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Comments 63701 to 63750:
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Camburn at 00:42 AM on 17 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
When it is all said and done, mainly because part of the "Leak" does seem to be fabricated, this will amount to nothing. A ship under full sail with strong winds, all of a sudden hitting no winds and dead in the water. -
CBDunkerson at 00:41 AM on 17 February 2012The Year After McLean - A Review of 2011 Global Temperatures
So Trenberth says that Asian aerosols cannot explain the decreased rate of atmospheric warming. This differs from your previous representations that he was saying they do not exist or that they are insignificant. He says neither. Only that he does not believe they explain the change. Which still falls back to my prior statement that the uncertainty around these minor factors is still too large to separate them out... which is precisely the point Sphaerica was making (in reference to natural variability) that you 'disagreed' with in the first place... which was itself only tangentially on topic as these 'deductive analyses' of temperature anomaly components were one of the reasons it was obvious McLean's prediction was insane from day one... which is the actual topic here. -
ScaredAmoeba at 00:32 AM on 17 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
Sadly, having compared the documents, I strongly suspect that the 'January 2012 Confidential Memo: 2012 Heartland Climate Strategy' is NOT genuine, it is an 'outlier' as anyone who examines the documents will be able to determine for themselves. It is a great shame, because had it been genuine, it might have been very useful. -
Ken Lambert at 00:30 AM on 17 February 2012The Year After McLean - A Review of 2011 Global Temperatures
Sphaerica #38 I can't imagine what the 'black helicopters' remark means, however I am mindful of the comments policy. I don't mind being called by my first name either - or an abbreviation like KL is quite OK. Lambert sounds somewhat schoolmasterish. -
Ken Lambert at 00:15 AM on 17 February 2012The Year After McLean - A Review of 2011 Global Temperatures
CBD #40 I did find the actual Trenberth quotation on SKS: Quote: "There is discussion in the comments of the supposed finding that increasing aerosol (pollution) from China may be the explanation for the stasis in surface temperatures and I do not believe this for a moment. Similarly, Jim Hansen has discussed the role of aerosol as a source of discrepancy. However, the radiation measurements at the top of the atmosphere from satellites (CERES) include all of the aerosol effects, and so they are not extra. They may well be an important ingredient regionally, and I have no doubt they are, but globally they are not the explanation." endquote One might disagree with Dr Trenberth's analysis however he plainly says that: "increasing aerosol (pollution) from China may be the explanation for the stasis in surface temperatures and I do not believe this for a moment". And futher: "They (Chinese aerosols) may well be an important ingredient regionally, and I have no doubt they are, but globally they are not the explanation." We are talking about global warming and global temperatures here - not regional variations. So though my language was imperfect - my meaning did not misrepresent Dr Trenberth's position on the global effects of Asian (Chinese) aerosols. -
otter17 at 00:09 AM on 17 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
Ah, sorry I didn't provide a link to the comical WUWT moderator comment about SkS. I don't feel quite right pasting any WUWT link given their propensity to bash peer reviewed papers and scientists without participating in the peer review process themselves. -
Jeff T at 00:08 AM on 17 February 2012Tropical Thermostats and Global Warming
The histogram (Figure 1) appears to show a moderate ramp up from low temperatures with an abrupt fall at about 30C. That shape is artificial, because the histogram mixes all latitudes. If the histogram is limited to a narrow range of latitudes, it will be more nearly symmetric and won't give the impression of an upper limit to sea-surface temperature. It will still be somewhat asymmetric, because the eastern Pacific is relatively cold. -
CBDunkerson at 23:51 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
For the 'document sleuthers', note that the 2/14 date on the contested strategy memo is time zone dependent. If the document actually originated from Heartland's offices in Chicago it would have been created at 11:47 am local time on Monday 2/13. It might also be possible to get some idea of the location of the sender from the header information of the e-mail DeSmog received... depending on what kind of e-mail account it was. -
kampmannpeine at 23:26 PM on 16 February 2012Fritz Vahrenholt - Duped on Climate Change
yes - this man Vahrenholdt is manager of one of the big energy companies here in Germany. This is typical and as I often quoted here at SKS, the EIKE institute of denialists (CFACT behind EIKE) stands behind everything there ... you know EIKE is fostering Svensmark (and Kirbky) in a very rare way - actually a good scientist with brilliant ideas, but, as you say the results of the CERN project CLOUD are too thin as that they were final. And even though: CO2 is warming the atmosphere (and other GHGs) and this CLOUD-effect - as we might call it - is perhaps a shortterm mitigation effect ... when it is over, CO2 and the other GHGs strike back ... This does not go into the heads of some influential people ... Moreover there is another interview with Prof. Eicke Weber Head of the Fraunhofer Institute in Freiburg/Germany in one of the online issues of WELT or SPIEGEL (I just do not know which one) who is being opposing the Vahrenholdt book ... etc. etc. -
SRJ at 23:07 PM on 16 February 2012We're coming out of the Little Ice Age
What is the reference for figure 2? The figure caption mentions GCRP, 2009 p. 20. What is the acronym short for? -
Forrest at 22:37 PM on 16 February 2012Tropical Thermostats and Global Warming
And even if there is some unknown mechanism which prevents ocean surface temperature from exceeding 31 C, so what? It doesn't act as a planetary thermostat unless there is also a mechanism which prevents the higher surface temperature from spreading outside the current areas of high temperature. When tourists begin traveling to Antarctica to surf in the 31 C water, we've got a serious problem. -
logicman at 22:13 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
I can state with confidence that the 2010 IRS 990 document is genuine. US law requires tax exempt organisations to make some matters publicly available: IRS on public disclosure. The Heartland Institute has made the form 990 publicly available: heartland.org IRS form 990. Any interested person can download the form from Heartland and compare it with any other version shown or linked on line. nullias in verba = show me the evidence. -
John Russell at 22:08 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
Thanks for the thoughts, everyone since #154. I still find the idea of someone faking the document to be the least likely explanation. It seems much more likely that a Heartland Exec, preparing for the January board meeting, produced an informal 'executive summary' or overview, pulling together the key elements to be discussed. The fact they had printed this out was probably so they could refer to it during the meeting. A copy was then left lying around and photocopied by the whistle-blower. To me this seems the most plausible explanation. Another point. Clearly the whistle-blower is sitting back watching events unfold with interest. Assuming the 'fake' document is genuine, I suspect that at some point he will try to clear his name by telling how he did it -- or by releasing something to corroborate his evidence. I don't think he'll ever own up, of course, but he won't like being accused of fakery. If the document is a fake then I expect silence. This comment might be construed as a challenge. I suspect the whistle-blower will at some point read this entire thread. -
Bernard J. at 21:56 PM on 16 February 2012Peter Hadfield on Himalayan glacier melt
I hate to be pedantic, but the latent heat of fusion of ice only describes the energy required to melt it when it reaches 0 degrees celcius. A large proportion of polar ice is unlikely to be sitting at exactly 0°C, so additional energy is required to raise it from its ambient temperature to 0°C. The specific heat capacity of ice at −10°C is approximately 2.05 J/(g·K). Thus, to raise a gram of ice from an average ambient temperature of −10°C to 0°C would require 20.5 joules which is, admittedly, about 1/16th that of the heat of fusion. Following Andylee's format at #14: Raising the temperature of 1kg of ice from −10°C to 0°C would require 20.5 kilojoules. Raising the temperature of 1 tonne of ice from −10°C to 0°C would require 20.5 megajoules. Raising the temperature of 4.3 trillion tonnes of ice from −10°C to 0°C would require 4.3 x 1012 x 20.5 megajoules, or approximately 8.82 x 1019 joules. And that's assuming that the average temperature of the ice is −10°C. It's likely colder, so the amount of energy required would be commensurately greater. -
CBDunkerson at 21:53 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
Really there is no need for Heartland to publicly release the purported phishing e-mails. They are promising to pursue prosecution... the first step in that would clearly be contacting the police and providing them with the e-mails. So the question becomes whether they have actually done that. As to motivations for and impact of a possible forgery... does anyone remember the George W Bush military records imbroglio? The so called 'Killian memo' was a forgery... but ironically it was the other real documents which conclusively showed that Bush had failed to show up for several months (without permission) and did not complete his full military commitment. The Killian memo itself was just designed to provide an 'explanation' of the underlying data... a narrative. Instead, the story became about the forgery and most people don't even realize that the accusations were actually true. -
Tom Curtis at 21:32 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
John Russell @154, this website exists to combat the incredible amount of stupidity that people seem able to bring to the subject of climate change, including people who think they are very smart, and no doubt score well on IQ tests. As it stands, the evidence supports with about equal weight, at the moment, two hypotheses: 1) The document release was made by a person who had direct access to the 990 form, but who phished for the other documents and created the "strategy document" to give a narrative to the dry facts in the other available documents; or 2) The documents where obtained legitimately by an employee or board member of the Heartland Institute, or somebody closely associated with the above. On this hypothesis the strategy document was a privately circulated physical document sent to a limited number of board members and/or senior staff at the Heartland Institute to explain the basis of the HI's strategy. The Heartland Institute can definitively rule out the second hypothesis by releasing the emails relating to the phishing scam. Alternatively, they can tacitly concede that no such emails exist by refusing to release them, thereby confirming the second hypothesis. The ball is in their court, and until they play it we will not know which way the game will go. -
Lloyd Flack at 21:27 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
John Russel, I can think of some reasons. It could be an insider who is doing this for personal reasons, to even some score. Someone trying to lash out is likely to overdo things. I could be a zealot who has lost their sense of proportion and can't see the possibility of a backfire. Remember, believing things because they are what one's side believes is not a monopoly of any political side. There are plenty of people who are concerned about Global Warming, not because they have followed the science but because it is what their side of politics does. There are plenty of ingenious idiots around and some are taking the right side on climate issues for bad reasons. But still, I agree that it is more likely that the the Heartland Institute is lying. Someone is and they have terminal cases of self righteousness and willful blindness. -
Eric (skeptic) at 21:24 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
Tom, your proof of non-authenticity logic is sound, but the HI will ignore it like they usually do. My guess is they will spread FUD instead. Whether people will understand your logic is a separate question. The recent date on the doc could either be from a rescan or from a paper doc leak, document provenance is a tricky business and Desmog (or whoever) has more to prove in that regard. -
CBDunkerson at 21:20 PM on 16 February 2012The Year After McLean - A Review of 2011 Global Temperatures
Ken wrote: "I should have said..." You should have said what Trenberth actually said. Then we wouldn't have all this ridiculous back and forth over how best to interpret your misrepresentations of his position. -
John Russell at 20:54 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
I cannot get beyond the question of whether someone who releases a wad of accurate and damning Heartland documents would also shoot themselves in the foot by including a completely fake document. That stretches credulity. I repeat my point at #123. If the figures the 'fake' document contains are correct (as questions to some of the people mentioned seem to suggest) then how could the 'faker' have got them? Someone should demand that the HI allow an independent auditor to check the figures. Only if the figures are incorrect can the Heartland prove the document is fake. If the HI don't agree to an audit then we should assume they're lying. -
bill at 20:14 PM on 16 February 2012Video of Chuck Kutscher debunking climate skeptic arguments
Great presenter. Great plug for John and SkS. Great quote:Yeah, I'm preaching to the choir but, y'know what? The choir isn't doing enough!" [48' 38"]
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logicman at 20:03 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
The latest Guardian piece on this quotes a Heartland Institute spokesperson as saying: "At any rate, our standing policy is to not discuss confidential documents..." http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/feb/15/heartland-institute-fraud-leak-climate?intcmp=239 They seem to have conveniently forgotten about the emails. The same confidential documents which formed a "badly hemorrhaging climate alarmoscientists' scandal". A selection of which Heartland published on its own web site. http://heartland.org/policy-documents/presto-alarmist-emails-not-such-big-deal http://heartland.org/policy-documents/heres-selection-hacked-emails-climate-research-unit http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2011/12/28/climategate-2-reveals-further-scientific-misconduct-doubts Catch Heartland discussing private documents? Surely not! For 'tis the sport to have the enginer Hoist with his own petar; and 't shall go hard But I will delve one yard below their mines And blow them at the moon: -
macwithoutfries at 19:03 PM on 16 February 2012Tropical Thermostats and Global Warming
I wonder if another limiting factor might not be at this point the temperature gradient toward the deep ocean - meaning that once the deep ocean also gets warmer we will start seeing surface ocean temperatures getting higher? -
skywatcher at 18:29 PM on 16 February 2012Video of Chuck Kutscher debunking climate skeptic arguments
Nice plug for SkS at the end! And Kutscher's a very good communicator, good presentation. -
JohnMashey at 18:28 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
Ignore the climate strategy doc, which has very little extra real information beyond that in the other docs and those are quite consistent and mesh quite well with my long report that is based entirely on public (if often obscure) data. People really should spend a few minutes and look at the first 4 pages of that and see what else they want to read. For Aussies, pp.63-64 will help explain the presence of Oz in the flow diagram on p.3. To summarize a long story, documented in detail, IRS rules generally forbid US 501(c)(3) charities from sending grants to foreign non-charities except under restricted circumstances ... and saying that such foreign recipients need not be monitored because they are "friends" doesn't cut it. -
Glenn Tamblyn at 18:11 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
So George Soros is funding SkS? So with all that funding, how come we authors ain't seen none of it. If Soros is funding SkS, how come John Cook needs a day-job at the University of Queensland? And if Soros was backing an AGW site, why would he pick one in Brisbane, Australia. Surely George could have a chat to Bill Gates and get something a bit more up-market than that. Maybe Larry Brin or someone. But Soros decides to back a solar physics graduate from Oz. Is this how the man who nearly brought Sterling down operates? (no offence JC, but I think if George was backing us I wouldn't be struggling with a dying laptop just to stay on-line) -
Riduna at 18:03 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
I wonder how these revelations will be dealt with by the IRS? Do you suppose they will change the tax status of the HI? -
Philippe Chantreau at 17:01 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
Sorry guys, I'd rather not look... -
owl905 at 16:39 PM on 16 February 2012Tropical Thermostats and Global Warming
The 1.5k delta in a doubled CO2 environment is similar to the -2k delta for tropical oceans during the eras of the Ice Ages: "Beginning about 2.7 million years ago, the geologists found that tropical ocean surface temperatures dropped by 1 to 3 degrees C (1.8 to 5.4 F) during each Ice Age, ..." T. Herbert, NSF Study, 2010 If it's not magically capped from then to now, the magic-max claim becomes nothing more than a variant on 'global warming ended yesterday/today/soon'. -
jmsully at 16:26 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
You've got it. There were several threads dedicated to that one... -
Lloyd Flack at 16:19 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
jmsully, Are you talking about Nickolov & Zeller's United Theory of Climate? That was crackpottery of an unusually pure form. -
jmsully at 16:04 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
Philippe, There are many more than one 2nd law threads at WUWT! My recent fave is the Equation 8 thread. -
Philippe Chantreau at 15:57 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
Tom, "Clearly also the Heartland Institute can easily confirm their account, and that the strategy document is a fake by releasing the email from the purported fake board member, and the email and attachments to the purported fake board member." Couldn't agree more. That would clerar up everything and is the most convenient thing to do. If they don't do it, well... I scan documents all the time and save them as pdf files, which I can then easily attach to an e-mail. The buffoons at WUWT calling SkS a pseudo science site has me still laughing. Even among the comments, I have never seen anything comparable to WUWT's carbonic snow fiasco on SkS. I guess the 2nd law thread may be the exception, some of the comments there went way beyond the "not even wrong" and the patience of the moderators on it went beyond my comprehension, kudos to them. -
Ken Lambert at 15:30 PM on 16 February 2012The Year After McLean - A Review of 2011 Global Temperatures
CBD #37 Well yes you do. Clearly I accept your rebuke for having neglected to include the word 'effect' after 'Asian aerosols', as I did when listing the 'delayed Pinitubo rebound effect'. Asian aerosols exist just like Australian aerosols exist and USA aerosols exist - it is the particular effects of same which are in question. I did exaggerate slightly when I said that 'neither exist'. I should have said that the Trenberth opinion was that 'the particular effect of Asian aerosols' was not a cause of the lack of warming imbalance, and that the 'delayed Pinitubo rebound effect' was so bizzare that no other scientist to my knowledge has ever treated it seriously with a comment. For them it does not exist - for Jim Hansen it does. -
jmsully at 15:00 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
Tom, don't you understand? The identity of the billionaire has been revealed on WUWT many, many times. It is.... George Soros!!!! -
Phila at 14:44 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
a multiple convicted felon who worked willingly for the Nazis in WWII For those who don't know, the ADL has weighed in on this accusation: To hold a young boy responsible for what was going on around him during the Holocaust as part of a larger effort to denigrate the man is repugnant. Repugnant. Par for the course from WUWT. -
Tom Curtis at 14:10 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
Eric (skeptic) @140, if they do not disprove the theory when they obviously have the means of doing so by releasing the relevant emails, the obvious conclusion is that they cannot disprove the theory because the relevant emails do not exist. -
Tom Curtis at 14:06 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
Brian Purdue @139, he is not having a lend, and I have a screenshot. Anthony Watts likes to pretend to a high moral ground on a number of issues. Curiously, on every criticism he has made of SkS and in which he has pretended to the high moral ground, I have found (and have a record of) examples of his doing exactly the same things. This straight out conspiracy theory level slander by moderators is, of course something unique to his and other denier sites. [sarc] "Oh no, I used the "D"-word. That must be some sort of supper covert allusion to holocaust denial. Not that deniers would ever explicitly or implicitly try to associate "warmistas" with the Nazis: "a well known billionaire is funding the pseudo science blog sceptical science. That billionaire is a multiple convicted felon who worked willingly for the Nazis in WWII. How is that not headline news?" (my emphasis) [/sarc] -
Eric (skeptic) at 13:56 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
I agree with the ringer theory. The issue is proving there was an insider as stated at Desmog or a identity theft as stated at HI. Even if it was a disgruntled insider it leaves open the door to doubt (of the authenticity) and if there's one thing we should know is that door is always open at places like HI. I would not hold my breath waiting for them to prove anything. -
Brian Purdue at 13:46 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
Chemware – the real significance of that wild statement is that it was made by a WUWT moderator!(assuming otter17 is not have a lend of us) -
NewYorkJ at 13:30 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
I tend to agree with Tom's analysis (#133). Speculating...maybe the document is genuine, but came from another time and another channel, not from the original set of documents. Perhaps someone left it lying around as a hard copy somewhere within or outside of Heartland. Feel free to poke holes in the plausibility of that. To me, the wording seems plausible enough if it was an unofficial document, maybe a personal email from someone. Clearly, publicly, they would not want to ever convey they were trying to deter the teaching of science, or eliminate "opposing views" (especially because that's the correct impression many get of them), and I think this facade would want to extend to official internal communications and strategy documents that get approved. So it would realistically have to be a draft of something less formal, which is a different type of communication than say a tax form or 2012 budget document. -
Chemware at 13:25 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
@135 otter17 Let's see, this well-known billionaire would then have been born in 1920 or earlier, which makes him 92 years old, or more. Has SkS got any money from an old people's home recently ? -
muoncounter at 13:21 PM on 16 February 2012Fritz Vahrenholt - Duped on Climate Change
Martin#34: I looked at Kirkby's video in its entirety. Some of your points are not quite so clear. "Kirkby doesn't claim that cosmic rays lead to increases in cloud cover." That claim was made numerous times in the prior literature; it is the basis of the entire idea for the CLOUD experiment. See anything by Svensmark and his popularizer, Nigel Calder. "UV is neglected as an input in climate models, the sign for solar irradiance forcing is wrong." UV is not neglected; Haigh 2011 is a model study using UV. The case for UV variation flipping the sign of solar forcing is not clear. Consider this statement from the Max Planck Institute: the UV radiation shortward of 400 nm contributes only about 8% to the magnitude of the total solar irradiance, it is responsible for about 60% of the variation of the total irradiance. So most of the variation is in a wavelength range that is a minimal component of total solar output. Lots of folks spend all their time studying these questions; to show they've missed something this big would be quite an achievement indeed. But it hasn't appeared in the literature yet. "think of Kirkby as a sceptic it might be more because of what he thinks is poorly understood" Not true. Cosmic ray physics are reasonably well understood. What I have not understood in Kirkby's work is why they designed the experiment to model solar cosmic ray energies - not galactic cosmic ray energies. And I've discussed that with particle physicists at CERN who don't understand it either. Then there is this important, yet neglected question: How can the same ionization effect be triggered by lower energy gamma rays? -
bill at 13:20 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
Tom Curtis seems to have summed up the logical issues to do with the scanned 'Strategy' document being a potential ringer. There's plenty of interest in the other documents, particularly the 'Fundraising Plan' We'll see, of course. But given the nature of the other content the motivation for gilding the lily would be close to unfathomable. For a start, look what the discussion here is now focused on. Talleyrand's famous 'it's worse than a crime: it's a blunder' comes to mind. -
Norman at 13:20 PM on 16 February 2012A prelude to the Arctic melting season
Daniel Bailey @42 I am not sure the problem is with the January temperatures in the arctic. The bigger concern may be the summer arctic temperatures when the air gets above freezing and the sun shines 24/7.
source.
Here is a January 1977 anomaly map when winter ice shows the largest extent in the record (compare to your 2012 graph) (article with graph of arctic ice 1972 to 2002).
source.
What may be more significant are the summer month anomalies.
source.
or-(another summer with low arctic ice area)
source.
And for comparative view the summer of 1977.
source.
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From Peru at 13:06 PM on 16 February 20122000 Years of Climate Reconstructed from Pollen
The captions says: "Black and red lines are the Summit [Box et al., 2009] and AWS [Stearns and Weidner, 1991; Shuman et al., 2001; Steffen and Box, 2001; Vaarby‐Laursen, 2010] decadal average temperature, respectively" What is "AWS"?Response:"Summit Automatic Weather Station ∼2 m surface air temperature (SAT) observations (hereafter AWS or in-situ record)"
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otter17 at 13:01 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
I was curious what Watts' response would look like, and I was skimming through the comments. I saw this one by a moderator. "[Reply: a well known billionaire is funding the pseudo science blog sceptical science. That billionaire is a multiple convicted felon who worked willingly for the Nazis in WWII. How is that not headline news? -mod]" I laughed out loud when I first read it since it sounded more like a schoolyard rumor. -
RyanStarr at 12:59 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
When otherwise illiterate people try to write formally they often suffer from unnecessary verboseness. e.g. "Given the increasingly important role the Heartland Institute is playing in leading..." Better, "Given the increasingly important role the Heartland Institute plays in leading..." And surely no one fell for this? "Heartland is part of a growing network of groups working the climate issues" (reminds of the Blades Of Glory quote "work the Google on the internet machine", possibly where the author learnt the usuage) I got those from the briefest of scans of that 'Stategy' document and those two stuck out like sore thumbs. -
Tom Curtis at 12:44 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
Glenn Tamblyn @132, if the supposed forger had used a different set of scientists, the fact that the stragegy document was a forgery would have been immediately confirmed by its disagreement with the other documents. What the strategy document adds is extremely damning comments about the motives behind expenditures (ie, to dissuade teachers teaching climate science because it is controversial and complicated). We should not assume the strategy document is correct until such time as it becomes evident that the Heartland Institute is unwilling to show the evidence that would establish it as a fake (see my previous post). -
Glenn Tamblyn at 12:39 PM on 16 February 2012Denialgate - Internal Heartland Documents Expose Climate Denial Funding Network
Interesting that Heartland are claiming the key document is a fake. Surely if someone was wanting to fake a document like this, for maximum impact they would have picked a different list of recipient scientists. Idso as the largest recipient? Most people haven't herd of the Idso's. A fake would more likely have targetted Lindzen, Christy or Spencer. Or even suggested that Watts was directly on the payroll. The more moderate nature of who is on the list makes it more credible.
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